Tulpa.info - metaphysics

Pride arises because we believe that an action that happened through us that caused pleasure to ourself or others was our doing. It's the "weakest" form of unhappiness, but if we look at it, it's still a form of uncomfortableness based on a belief that we could have acted differently

12:34 AM

Worry and anxiety arise because we believe that painful outcomes in the future will make us unhappy, and that the painful outcome will be the result of a person's doing (ours or someone else's)

12:38 AM

Expectation and resistance arise because we believe that pleasant outcomes in the future (as the result of a person's doing) will provide sustainable happiness, and that when the expected pleasant outcome doesn't happen (as the result of a person's doing), we have to be unhappy

12:38 AM

I'm sorry for being so incredibly wordy, but I find it helps to be extremely clear and specific

12:39 AM

When there is an understanding that 1) our thoughts, actions and decisions are just as automatic as our breathing, heartbeat and digestion, and that 2) pleasure and pain have nothing to do with our happiness whatsoever, then this attitude of psychological suffering stops arising

12:40 AM

So it's an understanding that we're not "a doer", and that our happiness is not determined by outcomes

12:42 AM

We still feel like a person or "ego", except that there is no longer a misunderstanding about being separate and independent from life

12:42 AM

Happiness is simply the absence of guilt, blame, pride, worry and expectation, regardless of pleasure or pain in the moment - in a word, peace of mind.

12:42 AM

Hope that helps lol

12:44 AM

In my opinion, all of this still applies if you replace the word "person" with "headmate" ;3

12:44 AM

A headmate always experiences themselves as being a real person, but there can be an understanding that what happens through them is not their doing any more so than their breathing is (edited)

I read over this, but I need more time to think about it. I feel like I'm tripping over myself if that makes sense

agreed it’s powerful stuff but my brain is taking a second to process lol

I'm sorry, I always go way overboard with the explanation :D

The thing is also, because it's a lot of words, and it's referred to as a "teaching", it can easily be misinterpreted as, "I need to do make that change happen, I need to bring about the end of guilt, blame and expectation"... which is an expectation

3:33 AM

The teaching is really just meant as a description. There can be moments where we clearly experience or "awaken to" the fact that life happens automatically and we're just one component of a complex universe. There can be experiences of circumstantial pain, experienced without any attitudinal discomfort. In those moments it can "click" and we go, "this is what that description was talking about"

3:37 AM

It's not supposed to become a replacement belief of "I don't have free will" or "I shouldn't prefer pleasure over pain"

3:40 AM

But there can be a direct experiential understanding that what we're really looking for is not pleasure but peace of mind, the absence of our attitude of discomfort. And this description can make it easier to understand when that happens. It's like "oh right, yeah"

3:40 AM

Anyway wow sorry I'm still rambling lol

I was getting tripped up over the what is your ego part, I liked the detailed descriptions. If I'm understanding this correctly, your actions are not you, therefore your happiness is not the outcome of random events. Is happiness appreciating the moment?

Yeah, pretty much! It's being conscious of the present moment without any thoughts about how it could or should be different. Enjoying your pleasures fully, enduring your pains at peace. (Which doesn't mean you'll stop functioning in a way that minimizes pain. It's an inner peace, not necessarily an outwardly "peaceful" way of reacting)

1:44 PM

It's just the end of thoughts of "I'm not good enough, I hate you, this is unacceptable"

1:45 PM

No regrets about a past that's already happened, no complaints about the present, no expectations about a fictional future

And yeah as you said, that peace sets in when you stop defining yourself through your actions. There's no little pilot sitting behind your eyes. Your actions are the functioning of a complex instrument designed by evolution. You're described as the consciousness in which the present moment unfolds, functioning through that instrument

Nice

And so are expectation, guilt and blame ;P

Post this kind of thing in #media next time, please.

kindly turn off image posting perms for this channel and you mods won't have to keep coming in here with this same complaint

1

The solution isn't to deny people the ability to post images. If it's relevant to an ongoing discussion, it's allowed.

I felt it was relevant. Shake is always going on about how unhappiness is a direct result of worry about the future, regret over the past, and thoughts of how the present moment could be different

1

Agreed :p

7:45 PM

Definitely thought it was relevant to what this channel's been about for the last few months ~

We can discuss this more in #server-discussion if you want, but this one is meant to be for metaphysics.

well excuse me for not adding words to my image post in order to help nicely tie the whole thing together. I lead a busy life lately and didn't have the time to connect. From now on i won't post any images on the server.

>Vos overreacts to relevant image >Lusovius overreacts to Vos' overreaction

7:49 PM

>Shake just straight up being mean

Recap for @⛧soup ;3

7:55 PM

What we're really looking for is happiness in daily living. The flow of life is always either pleasure or pain (physical or emotional). Human happiness has nothing to do with pleasure or pain whatsoever. Unhappiness is always a result of our psychological attitude towards pleasure and pain. In this teaching, that attitude is called suffering. Happiness is simply the absence of suffering. Unbroken happiness is "available" (after certain shifts in our perspective) in the form of unbroken peace of mind regardless of circumstance. Suffering manifests in five different forms: 1. Guilt and shame 2. Blame and hatred 3. Pride and arrogance 4. Worries and anxiety 5. Expectations and attachment to outcomes. Guilt, blame and pride arise because we have a deeply ingrained belief that human beings are independent "doer" entities that are separate from life, uninfluenced by life. Worries and expectations arise because we have a deeply ingrained belief that pain makes us incomplete and unhappy, and that pleasure at some point in the future will bring us sustainable happiness. A much more accurate description is that our thoughts, actions and decisions are always a result of our design when life conceived us and our conditioning in every moment since conception. Our feeling of free will is both an illusion and a gift, and remains in place even after a shift in perspective has dissolved the beliefs that caused our suffering. Our own free will is never different from the will of life, because we have never been separate from life, which has created, grown, shaped, conditioned and lived us in each moment. When this is deeply understood, our attitude of being a separate "doer", whose completeness is determined by pleasure, falls away and peace of mind persists on a continuous basis.

@Maharani would rather take my time to think about it, will read later ^^

Sounds good!

So @Maharani we talking about switching now?

XD Sure, go ahead...

4:25 PM

I've got nothing to contribute in that regard yet...

Hmm, I was being funny but now I am trying to think of something.

9:15 PM

How do you think it works?

I think even if it's not metaphysical a lot of people would have it easier if they acted like it was. Some people act like it's a machine and it definitely isn't that.

Ahaha nice point

The metaphysics rss feed doesn't work right now, here's the latest meta thread on the forums: https://community.tulpa.info/topic/16279-can-tulpas-haunt-others-with-use-of-black-magic/ (edited)

Lmao that thread title is great

implying your brain daemon can even leave your head

2:29 AM

still, energy (in magic) follows intention. So if harm is intended then harm will follow. At least where magic theory is concerned. (edited)

2:30 AM

i wish i could see that thread, but i'm not a member of the community

oh yeah lol, I forget the meta subforum is hidden (edited)

4:01 AM

it's just ghost kid, who's been hanging around and asking these sort of questions for months and months

4:02 AM

Is it true that people who practice black magic.Can send a tulpa to haunt someone?

4:02 AM

no replies so far

That would of course imply that a Tulpa is a ghost. Because as far as I know a living being is incapable of "haunting"

4:40 AM

By asking is it true? It seems that someone is trolling the poor guy into believing these things and all he needs is someone to tell him no, it's not true.

Granted, a Tulpa can't exactly be called a living being, as it has no physical form

5:47 AM

But ghosts are generally thought to be created from the passing of a mortal. Tulpas are created within a mindscape

Granted, a Tulpa can't exactly be called a living being, as it has no physical form

I think most tulpas would disagree on both points

5:50 AM

Then again, this is the metaphysics channel

Just because a Tulpa can control a human's body doesn't make that body their physical form.

You could say the same thing of the host

The host has had the pleasure of experiencing that human body from the onset of their cognitive abilities. Can you say the same of a Tulpa?

No... and? A host is basically just an older tulpa

A Tulpa starts experiencing the human body at whatever point they come into being.

6:09 AM

They can call the body their's all they want to, but who was there first?

6:10 AM

Tulpa ego or the ego that has been developed with the growth of the human form?

I don't really understand why "who came first" would matter at all regarding the question of of the body is shared

6:12 AM

According to almost all systems I've talked to, the tulpa shares the host's body and mind. This is not a point of contention

6:12 AM

In a discipline where there are many points of contention haha

Be that as it may, would you say that a Tulpa leaves behind a ghost when it dies? When the physical form dies would there be one ghost for one body or would there be several because of the amount of additional consciousness within

6:13 AM

If you killed your Tulpa would it haunt you? Would it then be able to haunt others?

6:14 AM

This is of course implying you even believe in ghosts

Hahaha I'll leave that question for the actual metaphysicians of this channel :p

They don't exist. This channel is dead. I suspect I'll find more of an answer in anarchy, if they don't troll me for even asking (edited)

They don't exist. This channel is dead.

Sad but true

Just because a Tulpa can control a human's body doesn't make that body their physical form.

@Lusovius Hey buddy! This body isn't any more Lily's than it is mine!!

That's the part you people want to argue about? It's not even that interesting. And until you can fully switch how can you make that claim?

I didn't get a chance to read the rest yet. We're at work.

️ Also, I can switch, goofball.

This debate is pretty interesting, but i don't even have a tulpa, so i feel like i'm not entitled to have an opinion on this

5:01 PM

i'll be back when i'm more experienced

I don't have a Tulpa so debate me. @bumblebee

great

5:02 PM

except for the fact that i was going to agree with you

5:03 PM

Granted, a Tulpa can't exactly be called a living being, as it has no physical form

@Lusovius about this

also, I think we would leave behind multiple ghosts. Or maybe a ghost that is a system!!!

Bah. What about the hauntings and ghost topic? Is that too meta for you people so you just cling to the part that you have an opinion on?

I'm pretty sure you have to have cells to be a living being

I would definitely leave a ghost behind, I know that

i don't believe in ghosts, so

5:05 PM

not much to debate

A Tulpa uses the cells in the brain to exist. But until they can switch, fully controlling the body at will, I can't consider the body their's. In fact, there's a mod here who still can't switch because the host doesn't relinquish full control over the body for one reason or another. I could even argue that the body isn't the Tulpa's until they can lock the host out completely.

thoughts also use the cells in the brain to exist

5:09 PM

so that's not an argument

Control over the body then comes down to which egoic self the body responds to most

about the switching yes, that might make sense to me

5:10 PM

let's assume a tulpa controls the body completly